Developing a Content Strategy for Technical Companies
Apr 19, 2024Season 2Episode 16
Jordan Yates
In this episode, Jordan Yates interviews Adam Kimmel, an engineer turned technical marketer, about the challenges of communicating technical ideas to non-technical audiences. They discuss the gap between marketing and engineering in the industrial high-tech industry and the importance of bridging that gap through effective communication. Adam shares his experience of transitioning from engineering to marketing and the frustration he faced in trying to communicate technical ideas to non-technical people. He explains his approach to breaking down technical information, emphasizing the importance of storytelling and providing practical takeaways. Adam also discusses his business, which focuses on developing content strategies for technical companies to help them articulate their point of view and educate their audience.
In this episode, Jordan Yates interviews Adam Kimmel, an engineer turned technical marketer, about the challenges of communicating technical ideas to non-technical audiences. They discuss the gap between marketing and engineering in the industrial high-tech industry and the importance of bridging that gap through effective communication. Adam shares his experience of transitioning from engineering to marketing and the frustration he faced in trying to communicate technical ideas to non-technical people. He explains his approach to breaking down technical information, emphasizing the importance of storytelling and providing practical takeaways. Adam also discusses his business, which focuses on developing content strategies for technical companies to help them articulate their point of view and educate their audience.
Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode of Failing. For you, it is me, your host, jordan Yates, and today I am joined by Adam Kimmel, and I'm excited to have him on because, as many of you may know, if you're in our more industrial high-tech industry, that there's usually this gap between marketing and the engineers that have this really technical know-how and then communicating their ideas, and then it can be a little bit rough sometimes. Adam is very experienced as an engineer as well as transitioned into the marketing arena, so I'm really excited to have him on today. Like I said, this is near and dear to my heart because I've lived this experience as well. So, without further ado, adam, say hello to everybody.
Speaker 2:
Hello everybody, Happy to be here, Jordan.
Speaker 1:
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Speaker 3:
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Speaker 4:
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Speaker 2:
Process and automation specialists, engineering efficiency together. In technical marketing I typically hear a lot of colleagues you know come from journalism, come from more communication focused disciplines. For me, I'm a straight up engineer. I was a calculator head for about 15 years. I did numerical modeling, analysis of heat exchangers and thermal systems, mainly in the HVAC and energy space.
Speaker 2:
So I worked in hydrogen fuel cells and electric vehicles, some of the kind of renewable energy fund type of stuff.
Speaker 2:
I worked in manufacturing shops designing prototypes that we would test in some of our systems. So I got really familiar with the tolerancing and the design elements of things. And what I realized is, if you develop something complicated, somebody has to understand it before they're willing to buy it from you. And that's really where I started to see this gap, where I would talk and people would stare at me and I would kind of go are you with me or do you need me to kind of go back, and then they would say, well, what you just explained, can you three bullet point that for me? And then could you write a little summary of it? And so that's really where the technical marketing came in. And I started about almost 10 years ago now developing these kinds of technical things for the company I worked with at the time internally and I thought, well, if they liked it, maybe others will too. And so now I do this for anybody out there in the space.
Speaker 1:
I love that and I want to hone in on the point where you're like. You say all these technical things and many times in our industry, even being a technical one, marketing folks are traditional marketing folks. They went to college, they studied marketing, they studied journalism and they never took a thermo class, they never took an engineering class. And then they're expected to write about this and market these really technical things. And then meanwhile we have our engineers, which I'm an engineer as well. I think I had one engineering for writers class and I had to practice writing reports, but I never learned really well how to break down my ideas and communicate them to someone who wasn't technical. And when you're technical for so long you don't realize the things that just seem inherently just common knowledge. When it's not common knowledge at all, it it is. You are technical, you've studied this for years. So was it ever frustrating on your end trying to communicate at first these technical ideas to non-technical people? Can you walk us through that in some ways that that I don't know, it might have been difficult.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, for sure. I think there's for the technical team that's in the work day in, day out. A lot of times they're disconnected from customer discussions day to day, so they're very insulated. And there's this assumption that everybody is on the same level with the depth of knowledge they have, because the people you talk to day to day are all there with you.
Speaker 4:
So you don't have to ramp anybody up.
Speaker 2:
They're already there. As soon as you start getting outside to a customer or to a business leader or someone outside of the immediate work team, that's where things start to break down. And so I think, being aware and sensitive to how the information is being received, do they seem distracted? Are they giving these cues of arms crossing or frowning or squinting to try to really catch on to what you're saying? If that starts to happen, then it's time to zoom out a little bit. But I think the fact that a lot of technical people are very insulated was the issue, and breaking through that and starting to understand what those cues were to change an approach is really what I found to be helpful.
Speaker 1:
What was your approach like before you got more fine-tuned at delivering your ideas? Were you ever just like can you just Google it? Come on, man, I told you what I told you. Figure it out.
Speaker 2:
Were you patient.
Speaker 2:
Well, it depends on with who, but what I actually went the other way. I would say if you don't believe me as an expert, read this journal paper. And so, for anyone that's ever read a journal paper, those things are not on any planet really is reading this. I mean, okay, the peer review team, but beyond that, unless you're really into the topic. So that's when I started to say, all right, well, if somebody really wants information, this is the last place they should go. So what's the first place? And I found that it didn't really exist.
Speaker 2:
And so then that's where I started to go, all right, well, what are some of the questions that I would hear? Let's just document those and answer them, because if one group has it, maybe another one would, if it's a customer or a business leader. And so then I started to say, all right, well, here's the journal paper. I'm going to do the opposite of that and then take these questions that people may understand and kind of frame it that way, and then just test it right, just like we do in marketing, just to see what resonates. Are people playing back to you things that you've said? If they are, they're with you. If they're not, okay, maybe you didn't hit it right. That's how I approached it.
Speaker 1:
No, I like that because the journal paper thing is kind of funny, because when I worked at Knowles and we would work with True Marketing to send them some, usually we would do a spec doc, outline what we wanted to say, and then we would send some supporting research to them. Well, one day I just had this really hard to explain topic and I was frustrated with it. So I just sent them all these links and they were like One of them was like a 300-page report and my boss immediately flagged it. He's like Jordan, you really want these people to go out there and read this 300-page report? No, your job is to summarize it for them.
Speaker 1:
Take a step back, actually explain to them what's in the paper. If there's one or two pages, pull it out, give it to them, but do not expect them to have to go be an expert. When you're the expert, you need to break it down for them. And so after doing that I was like okay, I'm just being lazy. It is very difficult to break that information down. If there's somebody that's listening which a lot of engineers listen to this or technical people, can you walk them through step by step how you go about breaking down technical information for non-technical marketing or any kind of person you're communicating it to.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's one of my favorite things to do and in content that I create it tends to get the most engagement and interest. So say, there's a graph. If someone really understands the topic, they can look at a graph and tell you a story which I don't know that everyone would think of it like that. But graphs an engineer or someone who's an expert in the field would look at that graph differently than those that wouldn't. They would maybe pull the top level trend out, but to be able to look at that and say why, is kind of the magic. And so I look at it like a word problem, word problems.
Speaker 2:
As a kid, I have two teenagers that hate word problems and kick and scream when they have to do them in math class. Yes, kid, you know, I have two teenagers that hate word problems and kick and scream when they have to do them in math class. But yes, those are stories and so translating those words into something that you can solve is really the muscle that they're trying to strengthen. So then when I would look at a graph or technical data, I would kind of say, all right, well, why did we even generate this data? What was the purpose of this experiment?
Speaker 2:
And then, what's the message and story? Well, what did we expect to see? What did we see and what does that mean? And then the most important thing would be all right, well, what do you do as a result of this? Another test, whatever, and I think, thinking of it as a story. I tend to think everything is a story these days. There's a reason it's done, but until you come to why you're even looking at it in the first place. Reason it's done, but until you come to why you're even looking at it in the first place there isn't a need to go any deeper or further.
Speaker 2:
And so I think that getting people you know on board with why we're even looking or talking about this in the first place is the key to getting their attention. So once you have their attention, you've kind of won the right to go deeper. It's like oh, here's why we did what we did and here's the test we ran what were my assumptions? Are the assumptions ones that are obvious to make or not? And once you walk through those, then you've again won the right to go further, to say here's the graph and the trend. But I think the real takeaway I mean, even when I write graph summaries, there's a CTA at the end to say what does this graph say and what do we do? I mean, how should we advise the business as a result of this? And I think too often people just send a report. Here's some data, here's an inspection report. Some of these dimensions are in, some are out. Okay, can I ship?
Speaker 2:
the part Can I sell 100,000 more of them at this level, and I think that interpretation and analysis is the part that really good technical marketers do well, and that's kind of what separates great marketers from good, and that's kind of what separates great marketers from good.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. And for anybody who isn't as savvy on the lingo, cta is a call to action. Now, this is like. Everything in marketing is like okay, why are we doing this? What's the point? Because you could have this big pile of research. But then it's like okay, and what's the point? What is our view? What's our angle? How are we going to break it down? What's the point? What is our view? What's our angle? How are we going to break it down? What's the story, as you said, that goes with it. So I'm curious with your call to actions that you get out of research, what's the typical route that you like to go of? Hey, I have all this research, now I want to get someone to buy it. What's a way that you go about your call to actions?
Speaker 2:
a way that you go about your call to actions. Often with R&D and high complexity parts it's just too nuanced to like. You need a conversation, so the goal is to get the conversation with people that are knowledgeable and that can make the decision. So the goal is to get deeper engagement as almost a technical partnership. So if you do it right, the goal is that next conversation. So reach out to our team, that kind of thing. But there's also a you know.
Speaker 2:
I think it's important not to be so linear with it, because if you try to put someone in terms of okay, the call to action is either reach out to us or nothing. If they're not ready, you're done, like the journey's over. So I like to have you know if you're you know if you're ready to talk to someone. Here's that angle, here's another resource or a you know a white paper or a you know certainly ready to talk to us. Get your sales staff on. We'll get quotes and POs going. Not everybody's there. They may still need more information to kind of feel confident before they get to that step.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, absolutely, and I have a question. So there's sometimes like knowledge pieces where we just want to establish ourselves as experts in the industry and we put it out saying, hey, we really understand this concept. Is there ever a time where there's a place for a knowledge piece without a call to action and it's just like, hey, we're showing ourselves as experts, or is it always like we should try to always tie it into a CTA?
Speaker 2:
Well, I think it depends. But a lot of times times, if you spend too much time talking about how great and knowledgeable you are, that can have the counter effect nobody. You again have to win the right to talk about yourself, and so one of the ways to do that is to show a market view. Here's a competitive technology. I mean, you never want to bash competitors. Competitors exist for a reason. It's a good thing, it's healthy for the reader and consumer. But for companies and brands to explain, well, here's kind of an incumbent technology. Here's us, here's where we're better, here's where they're better.
Speaker 2:
The authority, that that builds from an awareness standpoint of what the solutions are for, where you fit, why you exist. The credibility is off the charts. You don't even have to say anything after that. It's inherent. You earn it throughout those kind of comparisons. So then the call to action is I don't know. I don't find it to be as, at least in our industry. I don't feel that it's such a critical piece.
Speaker 2:
I think it's just giving them a next step if they're willing to take it. But if you've done that credibility piece, they're going to remember that and they're going to know oh, if I want more information, I know where I can go as a source of that information. And then, when they're ready, what is it? 98% of the market isn't ready to buy at the moment you want to sell it to them, so be top of mind, and you do that through credibility earning.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely so. We've established you kind of have the understanding of the background, of what it's like to be an engineer, what it's like to communicate to non-technical people. All of this has summed up to you creating your business. Tell us about when you decided to go out on your own and what that looked like. Oh, and what your business is.
Speaker 2:
Sure, so I do. As you might imagine, technical content is a core of all of it. Right, I started as a writer, as many of us do, trying to tell these stories, but what I quickly found is that what people would ask me for wasn't really what they needed. They would ask me for an article about a topic that their competitor just published. Well, bad news, you're already behind. You're not going to do as good of a job as they are. You're going to rush through it. That's not going to work for you and one article is never going to move any needle on anything.
Speaker 2:
So I started developing content strategies for technical companies. So I started in the industrial space. I have expertise in automotive, in electronics I have no engineering experience, but I somehow became an electronics expert writer through all of this. You know with those types of companies and get into their. You know why they exist, what's their point of view and really help them articulate that through and develop content strategies that you know different use cases can amplify that point of view and why it's so important to think differently, why they need to change. You know, and just to give some of those context pieces versus feature, feature, feature benefit how many can we put you down for it's a much more educational thought leadership for marketers, that kind of middle funnel authority building piece that I help companies with now.
Speaker 1:
Very cool. So I don't know if this is proprietary to your process, but can you walk us through what intake is like? Say, I'm a technical company and I need your services, or I think I need your services. What do you ask me to determine if I'm a good fit? I could just make up a company off the top of my head and we can role play it. Ask me your questions.
Speaker 2:
Yeah Well, the first one I would want to know is people reach out because they like the fact that I speak fluent engineer, I say this all the time, it's all over my life Genius I've actually had people.
Speaker 2:
you know, just that line has gotten me people reaching out, we love that yeah. Speaking fluent engineer is a big one, but then I'll try to see where they are. So I'll ask like to role play it I would. I would say um, do you have a strategy in mind already? Where are you coming from with your technical content? Hmm, okay, let's pretend.
Speaker 1:
I'm a robot integrator. You want to do that? Sure, yeah, okay, jordy's bots. Um, let's see. Um, well, I I like to post pictures with my robot cause I think it's cool.
Speaker 2:
Does that count as a strategy? Yeah, yeah, I think we're done.
Speaker 1:
Sometimes I'll send an email, not on any sort of schedule, but just when I think of a good idea I send an email and then, yeah, I'll occasionally post a quick video. But I don't have a schedule, I just do it when I feel inspired, Okay.
Speaker 2:
So what is the business opportunity that you're trying to solve? What is the market need that you're going for?
Speaker 1:
So I'm working on palletizing solutions utilizing my robots. I come in, program them and I'll work with a lot of different OEMs because they are good at all the other stuff down the line on the palletizing. But I'm really good at the robot part. So I come in and I'll program my robot for the OEMs. And there's a lot of palletizing machines out there and so I'm like I want to talk to them but I don't really know how.
Speaker 2:
So that programming piece is the gap. How are they doing it today without what you can help them with?
Speaker 1:
I mean, some of them are trying to figure it out in-house and they're just like they're really struggling, and then other people will just hire people like me, just really expert roadblock programmers, really incredibly smart we're the best at what we do. You hear that often. Best customer service, best people in the industry once or twice, we're the best at what we do. You hear that often.
Speaker 2:
Best customer service. Best people in the industry? Yeah, once or twice, we're a family. Yeah, so if they didn't have an expert programmer come in, what's the impact to their business and what's the downside of the do-nothing solution?
Speaker 1:
The do solution be that their palletizing operations may not be as good and it could take them a lot longer to program it before getting it out the door, and so they have longer lead times and then their revenue cycles are a lot longer, so they're not bringing in money as fast, whereas if they brought me and my team in, we can help them program it faster and then they can make money faster.
Speaker 2:
So it's an ROI conversation. There's an investment on the front end, maybe to start the engagement, but there's some back end faster return and maybe increased capacity. That could resolve.
Speaker 1:
Am I hearing that right?
Speaker 2:
Of course, and all my customers are really happy. Everyone right.
Speaker 1:
Everyone.
Speaker 2:
And I want to tell people. Good Well, would any of them, because of how happy they are, be willing to give you some numbers, to share some of these ROI information? That could be a really powerful you know, at least you know content stream to say here's the impact that we've seen. I mean, have you thought through that, or are those numbers?
Speaker 1:
Well, if I give those numbers, will my competitors see it and use it against me?
Speaker 2:
If your competitors are using numbers that you're boosting ROI against you, then they're going to lose in a big way.
Speaker 1:
Okay, okay, good to know, I was worried. Data and competitors is scary.
Speaker 2:
Well, that's a typical objection point, but then my question would be what are the competitors sharing in their marketing, and what kinds of topics do they talk about to justify their existence and right to win?
Speaker 1:
They just tell everybody how good they are, but they're really consistent about it. They don't share a lot of numbers, but they're always on it. I signed up for their weekly newsletter and they're sending it weekly and they post all the time and they have really good infographics.
Speaker 2:
And I'm just out here posting selfies. I kind of want to do this. What would we do if it was the wrong way? But I want to say, well, if jargon is what they provide, then they're doing great. Just all jargon, no numbers. Engineers love that. That's a perfect strategy. So anyway, that's the way that I kind of would think through. It is if you're not competing against numbers, numbers are going to win. If you're competing against a superior technology, then maybe the responsiveness, maybe the technical partnership and depth of engagement. I mean, there's always a way to say we're the best partner in a contextual way that matters to a client, versus we're the best, trust us.
Speaker 2:
You haven't earned the right to be trusted yet. So that's those kinds of questions. Try to pull out some proof points and data to say well, why should you trust us and fear being such a powerful one? What's the risk if I don't do anything? What's it costing me? Because it's probably not nothing, but I just don't understand what that is. So framing that from that standpoint can be powerful too.
Speaker 1:
Okay. So now that I understand my value, what kind of content should I be putting out? What's relevant in my industry? Do I need to make a TikTok? I've heard I need to make a TikTok.
Speaker 2:
I don't know why anybody would need to make a TikTok. Tiktoks are good, I mean, I don't know why anybody would need to make it. Tiktoks are good, I mean, I don't know. It depends on the audience, right? I think the younger the audience, the more impactful that can be.
Speaker 2:
Short form video is impactful, so if there's a demonstration or feature that's really like the wow factor in seeing it is there, then sure, but I'm a big proponent of cornerstone, long form content. That's what I provide, so I hope I'm a proponent of that. That's great, right, yeah, but it's this what's the manifesto or the base point of view of everything? And then you can take that in any number of ways, right? You can put a little blog campaign as a spinoff, a mini campaign off of a couple items there.
Speaker 2:
Do an interview series with internal subject matter experts. Using that expertise and some of the brand equity of experts in the industry is key. Having them author some of these articles or writing it under their byline can go a long way. These are people that people go to conferences to hear, so they certainly would probably read something they wrote. Or, if there's a little interview series, I've seen little conversations like this, internal though just interview an expert and ask them the questions that you want them to be telling everyone about. So there's that, but I think it has to start with the deep cornerstone content, because a lot of it is. Companies want to start at the end and say what's the blog post that we need to write, but you have to get to why you need it and what it should say through the strategy arm, and I think that's best done through these cornerstone pieces and then splitting those into different kind of middle of funnel to think of it that way, thought leadership and then splitting those out into different other elements.
Speaker 1:
Okay, I'm stepping back into regular Jordan. Jordy's Bots is sideline now, so based on that, would you say that they would be a good candidate for your services?
Speaker 2:
For sure. I actually worked with a company recently that was their exact problem. I mean, it wasn't necessarily those bots, but it was this Jordi's bots. Yeah, yeah, TM. Right, let's go.
Speaker 2:
But it was a similar ROI situation where it was this technical partnership, where it was a kind of a front end investment with a back end return and the whole goal was capacity. It was. You know, demand is basically unconstrained for what we're doing. We'll sell every part we can make. So how do we make as many parts as we possibly can possibly can? So then the team was challenged with going back and saying how can we leverage automation, AI, all the things that you hear about, to get this capacity numbers up, to get the operating efficiencies higher, and what's the point of view as to why our solution is best suited to do that? And so when it's clear like that and there are numbers, then it's easy. If you have the numbers, the story falls out of that. So then it was just a matter of all right. Well, let's just tell people about the power that they can expect from this. If you're willing to invest, here's what you'll get.
Speaker 2:
If you're not these dollars are on the table. So there's your decision point and then leave it to them. And then that's often where some other questions come, like well, what if we got one versus four of these automation solutions or something? And that's you know a lot of times why the CTA is just reach out to us. Let's start talking more, if, if, what we provide will solve your problem. You know it continues the discussion.
Speaker 1:
No, absolutely, and it's funny. So I've been on the receiving end of the intro calls before of like, hey, what do you need? What are you currently doing? And it's always funny because it's like most people think of marketing last in this industry.
Speaker 1:
We're so technology focused of like we have this awesome solution, we have awesome engineering, but then they don't know how to tell anybody about it and they grew too fast and they're making all this money and they're like we want to grow more, but all of a sudden our brand identity has been lost. We aren't exactly sure how to communicate it, and that's why I think it's really cool to have businesses like yours in this industry that can help people speak fluent, engineer and get them out there with their message, because it's not that they're a bad company, they just are missing a really critical communication piece in it. So we're getting closer to the end of our time. But I wanted to ask is there any points in your business that you've experienced either a major fail or you've seen a customer do something absolutely insane, and what did you learn from it?
Speaker 2:
I think whenever you think technical marketing and a lot of it's this organic search piece people are nervous to invest because they don't immediately see the value of marketing, and so marketing becomes this nice to have when times are good that people say, okay, now we can invest in marketing. Couldn't be more opposite of the way that you should do it right, because if the phone is ringing then you don't need it, but when the phone stops ringing, you're going to really really wish that you've done that work on the. You know going up to it, and so what I see is for thought leadership campaigns, it does take about three to four months before meaningful traffic and lead gen start to come in, and when companies treat marketing as a discretionary, marketing treats them like a discretionary expense. It's a transaction.
Speaker 4:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
If you throw articles at things, there's no direction and it can almost have the counter effect, where you're confusing the market and the readers. So content without strategy is a losing effort and it really isn't going to work and it can have the opposite effect. So winning companies are realizing this, partnering with people in their industry to kind of bridge the gap from sales to hearing these pain points, technology and engineering, developing solutions, linking those together and then retelling that to the market to explain that to them.
Speaker 1:
So when that's done right, things go well, and why I exist is that it goes wrong more than it goes right these days it does, and that's why, like anytime I'm out there, like you know, meeting customers, and I see something where it's like almost a good fit for my business but it's a better fit for somebody else, like I'm always very willing to just hand it off to the better fit. And they're like why are you like, do you not like us? And I'm like no, like, I just think this company is a better fit. And they're like why are you like, do you not like us? And I'm like no, like I just think this company is a better fit. And they're like well, don't you need customers? And I'm like trust me, this problem is there. Everyone has it.
Speaker 1:
Like the market share, like we're good, everybody that's in our position, helping technical companies communicate their message. There's more than enough for all of us to eat, and so I am never worried when I pass off a customer because there's just so many technical companies that need help with this, and it's just a really fun space to be in. I think it's really exciting. I like watching companies go from being really chaotic and messy to having a smoother message, and it's because I've been in places where I've literally created content for companies with not a great strategy because they said they had it handled. And then eventually I'm like, okay, I'm not creating more content until we have a strategy to go with it. The two must be connected. It's crazy when they're not.
Speaker 2:
And I think it's important to realize what you're being told and what you're seeing, because to just assume like, oh, you have a strategy, you're good, let's see it, let's understand it, explain it to me as simple as that sounds, it can cost you time and possibly the right fit. So, yeah, I mean it's important to be honest with yourself as far as a service provider, as a technical marketer, to say is this really?
Speaker 2:
the right strategy Is this aligned with what I can do to help. If not, yeah, maybe pass off to a colleague, maybe push back and say really we need a strategy engagement before we just start creating blog series. And that education piece, I think, goes a long way too with establishing credibility and it helps. Usually there's poor, some poor marketer, internally overwhelmed, under-resourced, that would appreciate that level of honesty and transparency versus yeah, let's just take whatever work you give me and kind of make it work. It's not a long-term solution that way.
Speaker 1:
Exactly Amen to that. Well, Adam, we are just about at the end of our time. Is there anything else you want to say to the listeners before we sign off?
Speaker 2:
I mean just thank you. I appreciate the conversation and this opportunity I think is there. I think it's important for listeners to realize if you have this need, just like what you said, there are many options for how to get this distance between your technology and your customer base shortened, and bringing on somebody that has this expertise is a really smart way to do that. Somebody that has this expertise is a really smart way to do that. It's an easy on, easy off kind of situation versus adding headcount, which is why the freelancer or fractional model is so helpful. But it is a long-term play, so be patient.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, amen to that. So, guys, I will put Adam's website and contact information down below and his LinkedIn. So if you're like, hey, this guy is speaking my language, I need his help, I will give you all the info so you can reach out to him and get the help you need. But, guys, thank you so much for listening to another episode of Failing For you. As always, I'm your host, jordan Yates, and in the meantime, I'll be failing for you. See you next week.
